Thread: How Do I Get a Consultant Involved During the Design Phase?
Want to know how to save your church thousands of dollars in your next building project?
Just get a knowledgeable sound system and acoustics consultant involved before an architect
draws the first line. This is a continuation of the thread titled "Reverb Time".
From: Bob Lewis (Garrisonville, VA)
Subject: Re: Reverb Times
What is the recommended proceedure for getting an acoustics and sound
expert involved during the design phase? We will be building a
sanctuary within the next two years.
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From: Jim Brown (Chicago, IL)
Subject: Re: Reverb Times
<"What is the recommended proceedure for getting an
acoustics and sound expert involved during the design
phase?">
First, do some networking to learn who the good ones are,
and talk with them to find out if they are on your
wavelength. Once you've chosen one, get a proposal from
them for their services. Most consultants I know bill by the
hour, but will give you a maximum or fixed fee for working
with you throughout the project, or for a defined range of
services.
I like to propose for 2-5 days of work at the early stages
to establish needs, conceptual approaches, and budgets,
then propose for the remainder of the work once everyone
knows more about exactly what needs to be done. That
usually turns out to be the least costly option, because we
don't have to propose a higher fee to cover ourselves for
more work than is actually required.
I can personally vouch for the professionalism and quality
of several good consultants who hang out on this list. More
important, it's a small world, so reputations are easy to
know.
Some feel that the best possible relationship is for the
consultant to be hired by the church, because it provides
the greatest independence from the architect's demands. It
is much more common, however, for consultants to be hired
by the architect. If the architect is working for a fixed
fee, they are much less likely to give a significant part
of it to an acoustic or sound system consultant unless the
client demands it. And for competitive reasons (after all,
their fees are compared to other architects, and churches
never have enough money), many architects will sign a
contract for a lower fee and tell the client they are doing
the acoustics themselves. So it may be necessary for the
client and the architect to reach an understanding at the
very beginning of the project that the church's chosen
acoustic and audio system consultants are to be part of the
design team, and that their input is to be implemented in
the design.
The important thing to understand is that the design
process is complex, and requires a lot of different design
disciplines and ranges of knowledge. If things get too far
down the design trail, it can be expensive for the
architect to change things just because some acoustic
consultant says so (additional drafting time, walls may
have to move or change shape, even the location of choir,
altar, platforms, stages, and congregation seating may need
to change). This ripples back to electrical, mechanical,
structural, and theatrical designs, all of which may need
to be changed. And all of those designers will want
additional fee to redesign if they've already done it once.
Bottom line is that a church needs to select acoustic and
audio system consultant(s) at the same time they are
selecting an architect, and have them at the table when the
first conceptual design thinking is being done.
Some thoughts about costs. The most costly thing a church
can do is make a mess of their acoustics and their sound
system and have to remodel and/or replace them. The costs
to fix a mess often involve abandoning a good part of the
sound system, installing a new loudspeaker system, and
doing major remodelling of the sanctuary. Costs can easily
hit $100K for sound and double that for acoustics. Good
consultants will know the least costly ways of providing
good acoustics and good, reliable sound systems that will
last 20-25 years. I like to believe that my fees for audio
system design come back to the client in money saved on the
system purchase and not having to do it again. Although I
don't know, I suspect the principal cost savings for
acoustics consulting is not having to fix it later.
Jim Brown
Audio Systems Group, Inc.
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From: Matthew McCowan (Biloxi, MS)
Subject: Re: Reverb Times
I have read Jim Brown's comment about the reverb times in John Hentschel's
church with with great interest and agreement.
Our church is currently working on plans for a new building to seat about
1200 people, I would like to find a "GOOD" acoustical consultant to work
with on this project and would appreciate any help I could get.
I would also like to ask everyone's opinion about EAW, they are talked
about often on the list and I have gotten some information on them but
I have never had the opportunity to hear them for my self.
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From: Jim Brown (Chicago, IL)
Subject: Re: Reverb Times
<"I would also like to ask everyone's opinion about EAW, they are
talked about often on the list and I have gotten some information
on them but I have never had the opportunity to hear them for my
self.">
EAW makes some very good loudspeakers, but that is really
the wrong question to be asking at this stage. Your audio
system consultant should be choosing, or helping you choose
loudspeakers based on your form of worship, the acoustics
of your space, and how loudspeakers can be made to fit into
the architecture to comprise a SYSTEM. I rarely design
systems with a single type or brand of loudspeaker, and it
is common for me to use 3-4 different types on any given
project. The issues are power handling, sound quality,
size, shape, directivity (for example, does it focus sound
where it's supposed to at all frequencies, or only at the
high end?). Will it be visible, or will it be concealed
behind architecture?
Jim Brown
Audio Systems Group, Inc.
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From: Bob Enlow (Norwalk, OH)
Subject: Re: Reverb Times
Jim Brown wrote:
<"If your congregation is building or remodelling a space and
not getting the acoustics carefully attended to, do what
you have to do to make sure it is.">
This is probably the best advice you could give. The real problem is
convincing the church board, building committee, architect or whatever
that they have a pending disaster on their hands. Especially when
the pastor's wife had a hand in speccing the room.
I took on a job where the acoustics were terrible due to reverberation.
The organist, who carried an excessive amount of weight with the board,
absolutely insisted that nothing be changed as far as the room went.
I gave them all the caveats in the initial meetings and did the best
I could with the budget I was forced to work with. On completion of the
job, you could understand the pastor's message from any seat in the house,
and the SPL was +or- 2.5dB in any seat. But...there's a big difference
in understanding and having good speech intelligibility.
I will never do that again!!!
Bob Enlow
RESOUND Co.
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From: Russ O'Toole (Romeoville, IL)
Subject: Re: Reverb Times
Bob:
Our most successful projects are when the acoustician and sound system
designer are involved as soon as the architect has his preliminary
drawings of the building assembled. At this time we get involved to
model the room acoustically (in EASE), lay out preliminary conduit paths
for mic, loudspeaker, intercom, and video lines.
Mix locations, video projection ,and lighting control locations are
identified.
This information is provided to the architect to include on his drawings
after we have involved the client to understand his/her needs. Sometimes
the client has to be lead along these paths. Afterall how many clients
have ever been involved in building new worship spaces. Unfortunately,
we have to provide a significant amount of instructional training and
education and it can be very time intensive! (:>)
Russel L. O'Toole
AUDIO ELECTRONICS, Inc.
 

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