Thread: How Loud is Your Worship Service?
On average, how loud are you running your worship services? At the church I
used to work at we would typically run anywhere from 85 dBA to 95 dBA, depending
on the type of music. That is to say, a calm ballad would average peaks of 88 dBA,
while a rock & roll song or a fast tempo praise song could hit 95 dBA (or hotter)
without trying hard. But that was in a charismaniac church. And yet the Baptist
church that Jeanna and I belong to uses both traditional hymns and praise and
worship choruses, and it's not uncommon to see low 90's there either. I know
of a music pastor in North Carolina who "demands" 105 dB during his worship
service. (Oh, my!)
If you can find a moment during the worship service this weekend, please take
some sound pressure level measurements. I'm curious to see what your average
levels are for your worship service, and I'm also curious to see what your
average levels are during your pastor's sermon.
So that we can all compare apples to apples, I'd encourage you to take your
measurements with the "A" weighting scale, and with the SLOW averaging mode.
If you can, try to get an average reading at (1) the house mix console,
(2) a "typical" good listening seat in the congregation, and (3) if you're
brave enough, sneak a reading up in the front row near where your pastor sits.
Another location I'm especially curious to see your readings from is at the
worship leader's location on stage. I think everyone on this list would like
to know how loud his/her monitors are running. Of course, you really can't
grab that reading during the worship service, but you could grab it during
the soundcheck before the service (you are doing soundchecks, aren't you!?!),
or during rehearsal earlier in the week (you are attending rehearsals, aren't
you!?!). (That's a whole other thread of it's own.)
If you'd like to take it a step further, you could also take some readings
in the FAST mode, which will give us a better idea of the peak levels. And
if you really want to scare everyone, take those readings in FAST mode with
the "C" scale. Yipes!
I hope you'll take time to do this exercise, and then share your results
with everyone on the list. Let us know if your church is a quiet, reserved,
mainline denomination church, or if it's a foot-stomping, running in the
aisles, charismaniac church. I think this will be fun for everyone. I'll be
glad to post a summary of the results. I'll be looking forward to hearing
from you next week.
Blessings!
Curt Taipale (Taipale Media Systems, Inc.)
P.S. If you don't have an SPL meter, I'd encourage you to get one. You can
buy a reasonably good quality SPL meter from Radio Shack for just $30. Using
it can be very educational. When I mix, I always prop my trusty Radio Shack
SPL meter up on the meter bridge right in front of me. I don't stare at it
all the time, but it does help remind me if I'm getting a little carried away.
And it's my defense if I get a complaint that the service was too loud, because
I know a quantitative figure of how loud it really was.
Besides, it'll look like you're doing something really important! (An answer for
all those people who wonder what it is the sound guy does during the service anyway!)
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I too use a SPL meter in every service. I set it up on the front rail of my sound
booth (so everyone can see it?). I can tell you know that our services on average
run in the high 80s. That is to say when the choir, piano, organ, bass, drums,
guitar, praise and worship leader, and four praise and worship singers, and the
full congregation are singing and playing we run about 89 dB with peaks to 93 or
so. Our preaching is done at about 65 to 70 dB.
Calvin Wilson (Garland, TX)
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Here's some SPL readings from my home church (sound 'area' (not really a booth!)
just off-center in the balcony, about 50' from platform area.)
An Evangelical Free church. This Sunday we had the following: 6 praise vocals,
1 piano, 3 keyboards, 1 drum kit, 1 Bass, 1 Electric Guitar, 1 Acoustic Guitar,
4 flutes, 2 clarinets, 2 trombones, 3 trumpets, 1 French Horn, 1 violin, 2 sax,
and 1 bassoon.
With no one in the sanctuary, the noise floor was 38 dBA
With the sanctuary filled (400), noise floor was 43 dBA
Music:
From the house mix position: 89 dBA
From a typical seat: 90 dBA
From the first pew: 92 dBA
From on the stage: 92 dBA
Speech:
From the house mix position: peaked at 68 dBA, avg. 56 dBA [speech is best
understood 20 to 25 dB over the noise floor]
Remember, SPL readings don't differentiate between the direct sound and
reflected sound. The readings include EVERYTHING. Also, loud sound does not mean
the sound is intelligible/clear. (A speaker running at 5W in distortion sounds
louder than a speaker running at 50W with no distortion.)
My rule? Simple--if you can hear it, it's loud enough.
What's the purpose of a sound reinforcement system? To _reinforce_ the
*natural* sound. It all boils down to that simple rule--if you can hear it,
it's loud enough.
Blake Engel (Chicago, IL)
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Hi, Curt
Emmanuel Pentecostal Church in Mesquite TX is around 95 dB A-weighted slow for
worship and 80 to 85 for the word. That's the hottest spot in the building and
there is no more than a 3 dB difference anywhere. The speakers are very smooth
so it doesn't sound loud.I have a dynamic filter set at 4 kHz on the Omni Drive.
Tom Pullin (Garland, TX)
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'A' weighted slow at the sound booth runs ~70 to 74 dB for music and slightly
less for speech. The rest of the church is within about 4 dB of that figure
except for the back corners. I don't have a level for the platform - the design
created a 'quiet' zone that includes most of the platform.
Thanks,
Robert Martin (Warner Robins, GA)
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Curt,
I read your article, from your web site, titled "Hearing is Priceless - How Loud
is Too Loud?". In it you mention how the manager of Grand Funk discovered the
euphoric results from exposing people to extended periods of high sound levels.
Has there been any research on this and if so do you know how I could get the
results. I would be interested in the details.
Thanks,
Steve Burge (McAllen, TX)
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Steve,
It's been several years since I read that comment, and I don't recall where it was.
I'll do some checking. In the meantime, does anyone else on the list know about any
studies regarding the physiological effects of high sound pressure levels on the
body (beyond hearing damage)?
Curt Taipale (Taipale Media Systems, Inc.)
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I don't have the actual study, but here's something for ya:
An article by David Clark in the spring 1995 issue of Professional Sound has the
following to say about loud music.
"It turns out that loud sounds directly affect our autonomic nervous system (also
called involuntary-it controls the body functions that you hope never stop, like
breathing and digestion), in a way similar to many stimulant drugs. Adrenaline is
released, the heart rate speeds up, the guts tighten up and move. This is the rush
you get from loud music-it's real and it's beyond your conscious control. Sounds
addicting, doesn't it?"
This is especially true of the low frequencies, as your body cavity begins to
vibrate at 7 or 8 Hz (One of those ear-testing people told me that--what are
they called?!)
Blake Engel (Chicago, IL)
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Blake/all,
What do they mean by "loud"? Do they give any levels or exposure times for the
effect to be noticeable? Scripture says to "shout" unto God, and to make a "loud"
noise. I'm sure these are meant to be *intermittent* and not sustained, but perhaps
certain portions of these responses are God's design for good, and not just negatives?
Randy Starkey (Pevely, MO)
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Randy,
I posted this message a few weeks ago, but I decided to send it out again as a
partial answer to your question. Also, I have an article on our web site that
delves into this issue a bit more. If you haven't already read it, I'd encourage
you to take a look at it. The title is "How Loud is Too Loud?". Anyway, here's
my message from a few weeks ago:
****************************************************************
Since we've been talking about how loud our worship services are, I thought
it might be interesting to note some of the sound levels that the US government
has determined are a concern.
Remember that an individual's susceptibility to noise-induced hearing loss can
vary considerably from person to person. Everyone hears things a little differently,
and we all have slightly different sensitivity. The scary thing about that is that
one person, in the presence of a loud enough noise, may permanently and totally
lose their hearing, while their friend standing next to them may suffer only a
partial hearing loss and may develop tinnitus.
But nearly everyone will experience some hearing loss if exposed to sufficiently
intense noise for a sufficient length of time. The last known OSHA guidelines
that I'm aware of are as follows (dB SPL, 'A' scale, slow response):
The first figure is the acceptable "Duration per Day". The second figure is the
corresponding sound level.
8 hrs .......... 90 dBA
6 hrs .......... 92 dBA
4 hrs .......... 95 dBA
3 hrs .......... 97 dBA
2 hrs ......... 100 dBA
1 hr .......... 105 dBA
30 min ........ 110 dBA
15 min .........115 dBA

Of course, technically we're supposed to switch to the 'C' scale when we measure
over about 90 dB, because of the Fletcher-Munson equal loudness curves. (Anybody
know why the gov't kept to the 'A' scale for this study?) If I were you, I'd
measure these kinds of levels with the 'C' scale; if nothing else, it will give
you an extra margin of safety.
Now, you may notice that if your worship service is running even at 110 dBA for
30 minutes, that technically your congregation is "safe" - according to OSHA.
However, how about YOUR ears? How about the ears of your worship team who, in
many churches with contemporary worship music, is hearing the energy at much
hotter levels (thanks to their ever louder monitors) than the congregation? If
you're doing soundchecks and rehearsals, you're exposed to significantly greater
risk because you're exposed to that energy for a much longer time period than
your congregation.
I'm not preaching - just hoping that you're thinking about it. And, if you're the
person with their hands on the faders, I pray that you're being a good steward
of both your ears and those of your congregation.
****************************************************************
Curt Taipale (Taipale Media Systems, Inc.)
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At 11:24 AM 11/12/97 -0500, Blake wrote:
>>"One of those ear-testing people told me that--what are they called?!"
Audiologists.
Barry Birdwell (Nashville, TN)
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Randy,
That's an interesting view. I'll have to admit I've never thought of it that way.
The Word also teaches balance and stewardship. Too loud for too long has been
proven to damage the human ear. It's our responsibility because we are the ones
holding the controls. But everyone knows this, so I'll stop.
Calvin Wilson (Garland, TX)
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Curt,
I read that message and fully agree. I'll grab your article also. What I was
wondering about however, if there is any data available, is about the other
physiological effects that Blake and Calvin were discussing. I wonder how
those relate to the SPL's of your chart, and if they are necessarily all bad?
There is no question about the hearing loss cautions. That's a given. But they
were talking about (I think) some other more subtle effects of loud music
(the 1995 article about adrenaline etc.). Some of this sort of gets into the
question of the "rock beat" and volume that is often associated with Africa,
and it's effects on the human body/psyche. I was just wondering if any actual
studies (unbiased) had been done.
Randy Starkey (Pevely, MO)
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Calvin,
Yup I agree on the too loud for too long. I was just curious if there is any
data on SPL/time to produce those effects, and perhaps the increase of those
effects as time/level goes on/up. Could be sort of like a glass of wine. One
at a special meal is great, three and you're in big trouble <G>.
The reason I mentioned the other angle, is because some folks think anything
louder than 75 dB and faster than 4/4 time couldn't possibly be God...<G>.
Randy Starkey (Pevely, MO)
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Randy,
We're still looking for some scientific studies on this phenomenon. One friend
of mine wrote to say "When the high SPL source was no longer in effect the
attendees' ears experienced great relief, which manifested itself as a look
of euphoria on their faces."
By comparison, consider that the majority of rock concerts - Christian or
otherwise - typically run in the 105 dB range, at least at the house mix
position. There are some that run even hotter than that. And I've worked
in recording studios where producers wanted to monitor at 110 dB to 115 dB!
Talk about stupid, er, counterproductive. As a member of the sound team or
the worship team, your exposure is significantly more of a concern because
you add soundchecks and rehearsals to the worship set - the congregation
only has to go through it once.
By publishing those OSHA standards, my concern is that some churches will
view that as license to crank it up. "Well, our worship services only go
for thirty minutes, so we can really push it." All I can say is that it's
unlikely that I'll bring my family to worship at that church. I don't want
my children exposed to that kind of SPL. Not to mention the fact that I
make my living, in part, from my ability to listen and identify minute
differences in the sound. I endeavor to stay away from an environment that
puts my hearing at risk. In fact, I regularly carry my $130 ER earplugs with
me whenever we go visit a church for the first time. They've saved my hearing
many times over.
Please, I implore everyone on this list who is serving in a local church that
is running hot levels in your worship service - contact the House Ear Institute
(www.hei.org) and order their videotape. Sit down with the pastoral staff, the
worship team and the sound team and watch it. Then discuss the levels that
you're currently running both in the house and at various monitor positions on
stage. Your congregations will thank you for it.
Curt Taipale (Taipale Media Systems, Inc.)
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My own experience/preference is to try for 95 dBA as measured at the console
using an SLM set to the slow response time. Regardless of how appropriate it is
to use the A-weighting function at this SPL, we are more or less stuck with it
because our good-old semi-guided government has written this into their
occupational noise standards. Anyway, it's my experience, based on mixing in
public spaces, that most people consider 95 dBA to be loud.
I find that using A-weighting is actually an advantage here, as it makes the
meter most sensitive to the speech range, which corresponds to our hearing
sensitivity. The good news is that with the A-weighting curve, you can make the
bass instruments loud and punchy, which gives the music drive and helps even the
musically/rhythmically challenged to 'feel' the music, without really hurting
them. Since the HF is also somewhat rolled off, cymbals don't really contribute
to the reading which helps if you have a drummer who likes to keep time on the
ride cymbal.
Finally, let me recommend the lowly Radio Shack SPL meter. I prefer the one with
the analog meter movement over the digital one as the meter can follow musical
signals and your eyes can follow them. You can't do this with the digital meter.
Why should you mix using an SPL meter? Because the meter won't get tired over time,
which you and your ears will. The meter is consistent, and as the day/night wears
on, will always tell you where you're at. If you mix loud music, your ears will
get tired and the SPL will climb. Although it may not be as 'exciting' to mix,
your listeners will appreciate the consistency.
I've checked the calibration of the RS meter, and it's level accuracy is just fine
for the application. No, it's not a Gen-Rad or a Bruel & Kjaer, but it's a whole
lot less money. Don't leave home without it.
Rick Chinn (Redmond, WA)
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An interesting thread. I've been studying this phenomena in my venue and have
wondered if there was some magic number that we could identify that would allow
for a good blend of both unreinforced congregational singing and the reinforced
mix from stage that would allow for enhanced congregational involvement.
In other words. Have you gentlepeople had an opportunity to measure your
congregation singing without other program material (from the system). I have
wondered, if that number was. . .say 70 dBA slow, then would an appropriate
target level for program material from the system (stage) be 80 dBA slow?
This level, allowing for the congregation to hear program, and themselves?
If it's true, that a 10 dB increase is perceived as twice as loud, then this
scenario might be out of line. Maybe we should only run our systems 5 dB hotter
than our congregations can sing.
I do not have any numbers yet, because we seldom sing acappella, and certainly
not without an amplified leader on stage, but if I can get away with it someday,
I want to try it out.
Jimmy Moore (Ocala, FL)
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Jimmy,
Your comment made me remember a rule-of-thumb I've always used--that is that
(in general) when a sound reinforcement system amplifies sound 25 dB over the
noise floor, you've reached the optimum level so everyone can hear and understand
clearly. How this fits into how much louder you would run the system than the
congregations singing, I don't know. It probably doesn't fit in too well!
Next time you have a chance, measure your rooms noise floor (with heating or AC
on, lights on, fans on (if you have overhead fans)--and now measure the SPL when
your pastor is speaking (in a normal voice) during his sermon. I've done this
in several churches and it never ceases to amaze me that the level is very close
to being 25 dB over the noise floor! Interesting...
Again, how this applies to your comments, I guess I don't know!
Blake Engel (Chicago, IL)
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Blake -
"Next time you have a chance, measure your rooms noise floor (with heating or
AC on, lights on, fans on (if you have overhead fans)--and now measure the SPL
when your pastor is speaking (in a normal voice) during his sermon."
Very good idea! To be totally accurate however you would have to include the
noise level of a "quiet" congregation, taken perhaps during a moment of silent
prayer.
Ray Rayburn (Boulder, CO)
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Yes Blake,
That rule of thumb bears quite well in my room as well. 25 dB above noise floor
seems to be a minimum for ease of intelligibility.
I hope however that the congregational singing isn't figured into the noise floor,
but rather is actually the primary focus of what is happening at the time, not what
is happening on stage (even though that gets turned around all too often). If this
is the case, I am guilty each Sunday of moving the focus to the stage and away from
the people's attempt to praise and worship Him.
I will continue to observe this situation in my venue and share those observations
as time permits.
Jimmy Moore (Ocala, FL)
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Calvin,
You right on with your thinking!
I tell my technical volunteers that their goal as operators is to help the church
keep focused on worshipping Christ unhindered during the service. It is an awesome
responsibility. This involves having the right equipment to do the job well, having
trained operators who know what they are doing with the equipment, and also having
volunteers who are alert at all times to whatever is happening on the platform.
Above all else they should have the sensitivity to the Holy Spirit moving in the
service. Unity with those ministering on the platform is another consideration
as well.
Arthur Skudra (Olympia, WA)
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Hi, y'all!
The 25 dB above the noise floor is a classic design figure for intelligibility
when you're talking about a pastor's sermon, for example. But be careful not
to assume that the same is important for music. Trying to get the worship set
25 dB above the congregation's singing is virtual ear and/or job suicide, and
unnecessary. In that case, a simple 6 dB is plenty.
Do I watch my SPL meter to note the difference? No. I use my ears because it's
simpler and faster and more applicable to the situation. (And because the SPL
meter can't differentiate between the congregation and the house system.)
And yes, tests show that an increase of 10 dB is perceived by most people as
though "the sound got twice as loud".
Curt Taipale (Taipale Media Systems, Inc.)
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Ray Rayburn writes:
<<"I can see your point, and I own a RS analog SPL meter, but I don't trust it
for anything closer than plus or minus 2 dB. I have a precision calibrator
which I use to check it before and after each use. I have also checked many
other RS analog SPL meters, any without fail they were anything from 1/2 to
3 dB out of cal. Every RS digital meter I have checked has been right on the
money.">>
Even if the meter is 3 dB from absolute cal, it is still a stable reference
that won't suffer ear fatigue and/or threshold shift.
It's certainly better than going it barefoot, and I believe that it's absolute
accuracy is "good-enough" as long as we aren't going to use the data in a
court of law.
Rick Chinn (Redmond, WA)
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Rick,
<<"even if the meter is 3 dB from absolute cal, it is still a stable reference">>
Speaking for my sample of the RS SLM only, it is not all that stable (+-2 dB).
As you say however it is far better than nothing!
Ray Rayburn (Boulder, CO)
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Hi Blake:
If you get the correct speakers, you may find that by getting them up in the air
the difference between front and rear is not all that great, negating the need
for satellites and a delay unit. You didn't give dimensions, but I would suggest
at least 15 feet and 20 would be even better.
By moving the speakers up, you are, in effect, moving them away from the front
rows, and closing the gap in SPL between the front and the rear of the room.
With the HUGE JBL's you mentioned, I'm surprised you have any intelligibility at
all. I'd think they would be blowing sound waves off the side walls, the back
walls, etc. Of course, that's a function of how hard you are driving them, but
106 dB isn't a very comfortable church service.
At the risk of sounding critical, I think someone should take a serious look at
the legal limits of exposure to high SPL's in this church. I certainly would not
attend there, and I wonder how many small children and babies are being damaged
for life in this environment?
Bob Enlow (Norwalk, OH)
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I know this thread is a bit worn out, but I found an interesting quote in the
latest issue of Pro Sound News (http://www.prosoundnews.com). This is from a
brief interview/advertisement regarding the current Rolling Stones tour. This
excerpt talks about the kind of SPL they're running in the house.
****************************************************************
"... But they are not the loudest, and much of that has to do with Robbie McGrath,
the group's new FOH engineer. As the first person to take over those reins in a
number of years, McGrath had his work cut out for him. Ironically, he found that
the key to mixing the Stones was to use restraint.
"It gets to about 110 to 111 dB - and that's as loud as I'd like it to get,"
said McGrath. "Some people think it should be louder, but in this day and age,
we're getting away from audio terrorism, and we're bringing the reality of
dynamic sound into these big places. You don't need to push it that loud,
because music has its own dynamic, especially with bands like the Stones.
There's an awful lot of energy written into the songs, like 'Jumping Jack
Flash' and 'Honky Tonk Woman' - turning it up ain't gonna add anything. It's
the punch that the band puts in it; it's the way the whole verse, chorus,
middle eight is structured, that gives you the energy and the rollercoaster
feel. By turning it up, you're just missing a lot of that."
Excerpted from Pro Sound News, November 1997 issue, page 64, written by Clive Young.
****************************************************************
Even that kind of "moderate" SPL is still going to keep me from going to a
Stones concert - well, among other reasons - but I thought it was refreshing
to hear his turn in philosophy as compared with that of engineers who have
gone before him.
Curt Taipale (Taipale Media Systems, Inc.)
(By the way, on page 62 of the same issue there is a story about the sound
system for the recent Stand In The Gap meeting of Promise Keepers on The Mall
in Washington, D.C.)
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We keep finding stuff. Here's a link for an interesting article from a 1995
issue of Live Sound magazine.
<http://www.livesoundint.com/archives/archiv18.htm>
Don't get too worried - it doesn't overtly threaten us in a worship service,
but ... Have fun.
Curt Taipale (Taipale Media Systems, Inc.)
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Randy,
Ever hear of the Christian rock group called "65 dBA"? They're one of the
Integrity Music artists.
The story goes that they chose that name because in their early days of playing
in that band, the manager of one of the venues in which they played told them
that they would not be allowed to play any louder than 65 dBA! Cool, eh?
Curt Taipale (Taipale Media Systems, Inc.)

 

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